Ep#31 – Michael Shermer – Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

 

Michael Shermer of Skeptic Magazine (Skeptic.com) joins me on The #GSPodcast to cast a sceptical eye on popular 9/11 Conspiracy theories. Controlled Demolition? Building 7? Inside Job? THE JEWS! And more! He’ll also explain some of the psychology involved in the formation/acceptance of conspiracy theories. I ask him about The X-Files too. Obviously.

 

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14 comments

  • That was painful to listen to. You are both quite ignorant to all the facts with 911 (and JFK assassination), you need to do better research before you laugh at peoples reasons for doubting the official story. There are countless witnesses who have spoken up about unusual events at the time, but the mainstream media won’t report on it because they are controlled by the very same people who carried out these attacks. Why would you believe the government is all warm and fluffy telling you nothing but truth and having your best interests at heart? They are a corporation largely controlled by the banking industry, and they will do all they can to manipulate us into letting them do what they need to gain more wealth and power.

  • You’ve just glazed over the facts, there’s far to much to explain to you for me to start going into detail, I suggest you knuckle down to some good old fashioned research and perhaps open your brainwashed mind a little.

  • Amazing. After listening to this you could STILL have someone who refuses to think, “You know, maybe the answer IS a lot simpler than I wished it were.” The amount of unbelievably clandestine work, with countless nameless workers who remain hidden and silent, all orchestrated by the most incompetent administration ever to infest the White House, is somehow more believable than a bunch of religious fanatics got hold of a few aircraft and slammed them into the buildings.

    Truthers: Your conspiracy is no longer interesting or relevant, and frankly does nothing but continue the pain for the survivors. Knock it off already.

  • Surely asking questions is what we humans are all about. We desire knowledge, and that’s what has allowed us to advance as a species. We should always stay inquisitive, and as there were undoubtedly some interesting occurrences on 9/11 we should really get to the bottom of it to see what we can learn, not just to find the true culprits but to understand the reasons why these peculiar things happened on that day. It is extremely relevant to study what has happened because as a result of these events we have gone to war in Afghanistan where thousands of people have died and continue to do so. The wars a spreading throughout the Middle East and something horrible is brewing. America is also going through a lot of changes with its civil liberties which are leading to greater control of the population there and around the world. This is all seems to be very advantageous to some organisations.

    I just want to focus on the 3 steel framed buildings that collapsed at nearly free fall speed. Never in history has one collapsed before due to fire, and never has one fallen on its own foot print or at that speed without it being a controlled demolition.

    A steel framed building is solid throughout, it’s not like an egg shell that if one part breaks the whole structure loses its integrity. It can be bashed about all over but the damage is isolated to where it occurred. WTC 7 was supposed to have collapsed due to fires alone. The melting point of steel is 1510°C, and the maximum temperature of hydrocarbon burning fire 825°C, temperatures could not be reached to melt the steel. Experiments have been done to recreate the conditions of WTC 7, and even with the fires exaggerated the worst that happened was a slight sagging of the girders.

    I don’t find it difficult to picture a steel frame, with intense forces applied to it, joints breaking, girders bending, even columns collapsing. But I cannot see it all happening at the same time, falling in on itself through floor after floor and girder after girder, to end in a relatively neat pile on the ground. If you imagine dropping a cannon ball from the equivalent height of the WTC 7 at the moment it started to collapse, the ball and building would reach the ground at almost the same time, even though the upper floors would have to drive themselves through the resistance of all the steel girders and concrete. The same for the twin towers, they fell at virtually free fall speed. The official story talks about the pancake effect were the trusses had given way resulting in the outer floors breaking away from the centre core, but there is no explanation for the breakup of the 47 columns in the core. See this talk from an MIT engineer:

    There is video footage of what looks like red hot molten metal pouring out of the building before collapse. It’s not physically possible for it to be steel. Liquid aluminium doesn’t glow like that, so what is it? It looks very similar to thermite. Then there is photographic and scientific evidence of thermite and molten steel in the ruins, and witnesses talking about the molten metal and extreme temperatures weeks later.

    There were so many suspicious things that happened that day: –

    Detection of Tritium isotopes at ground zero. Tritium is used in nuclear devices.

    Vaporized material and people.

    Nearby Cars burnt from the inside out while other combustible material untouched around them – a suggestion that electromagnetic pulses in the nuclear charges overloaded the vehicles electrical systems.

    Explosions in the basement prior to the collapses.

    Photographs of girders sheared off cleanly on an angle typical of a controlled demolition.

    Videos of people standing in the impact hole on the twin towers where the intense heat was supposed to originate.

    The hurried clear-up without proper examination and preservation of evidence. No reconstruction of aeroplane remains (as is always done after an accident), but then there were no real remains of any of the 4 planes (another first).

    The deeply flawed NIST Report.

    After the bomber flew into the Empire State Building, subsequent buildings were built to withstand such a hit.

    We are supposed to believe a passport of one of the hijackers made it out of all the carnage, but the planes black boxes were destroyed.

    No video footage of the hijackers boarding the planes.

    For all the security cameras on and around the Pentagon, we only have 1 video showing something hit the building, and the most crucial frame is missing.

    The size and shape of the hole in the Pentagon.

    No marks in the ground where the plane’s engines would have dug in if the plane had been that low to go under the first floor of the Pentagon.

    Photos of paper and furniture untouched by fire in the areas next to the collapsed wing of the Pentagon.

    Debris from Flight 93 scattered over an 8 mile area, when the official story is the one of heroic passengers overthrowing the hijackers and flying the plane into the ground.

    There is so much to learn, and I’m not very good at putting it into words so this is why I say to do your research, there are thousands of videos and websites to go through, some very credible, some not so, and there are many professional groups looking for the truth including Architects, engineers, pilots and firefighters. I have been fascinated by this topic ever since it happened and spent years looking into the different sides of the story; it’s not about choosing which side is easier to believe but looking at all the evidence and making a rational decision. To stop asking questions is wrong and exactly the reason why so many people follow a religion, because our very existence is unexplainable the blanket answer “god made everything” makes it easier to sleep at night doesn’t it?

    • Stephen Knight

      You have not raised a single point that doesn’t already have a perfectly good and evidenced answer avaliable, yet you have the audacity to accuse others of ignorance. You’re engaging in the Gish Gallop style of ‘argument’ here. A plethora of false-hoods, heresay and half truths thrown out at a rapid pace without any accompanying evidence whatsoever, putting the onus on others to disprove your extraordinary claims, and thus shirking the burden of proof. If you’re going to imply a fantastically complex conspiracy, on a massive global scale took place – which contradicts every single piece of evidence we have (we have lots), then you need to provide actual *evidence*. Peer reviewed is the standard. Rather than waste my time replying to every single falsehood you’ve failed to substantiate, I’ll simply link you to the work of good people who long ago debunked this embarrassing form of tin foil hat non-thought. Aim to learn and adjust. It’s important.

      I’ll now provide you links with a mass of sources attached, with detailed scientific explanations for your ‘points’.

      I just want to focus on the 3 steel framed buildings that collapsed at nearly free fall speed. Never in history has one collapsed before due to fire, and never has one fallen on its own foot print or at that speed without it being a controlled demolition.

      Two points: Not a controlled demolition, didn’t look like one, didn’t behave like one. Also, not a free fall. Didn’t look like one, didn’t behave like one. Sources:

      Free fall debunked: http://debunking911.com/freefall.htm
      Controlled demolition debunked http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/11-09-07/

      A steel framed building is solid throughout, it’s not like an egg shell that if one part breaks the whole structure loses its integrity

      Wrong. Read about the design and structure of the WTC. John Skilling, whose company designed them prided himself on using very little steel. Similar buildings constructed at the time used an average of 75 pounds of steel per square foot. The WTCs had 37 pounds per square foot. They were not ‘solid throughout’, they were actually mostly filled with ‘air’.

      http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/WTC/AISI/wtcaisi1.pdf

      It can be bashed about all over but the damage is isolated to where it occurred. WTC 7 was supposed to have collapsed due to fires alone. The melting point of steel is 1510°C, and the maximum temperature of hydrocarbon burning fire 825°C, temperatures could not be reached to melt the steel. Experiments have been done to recreate the conditions of WTC 7, and even with the fires exaggerated the worst that happened was a slight sagging of the girders.

      Answered: http://debunking911.com/pull.htm

      There is video footage of what looks like red hot molten metal pouring out of the building before collapse. It’s not physically possible for it to be steel. Liquid aluminium doesn’t glow like that, so what is it?

      Answered: http://debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

      Then there is photographic and scientific evidence of thermite and molten steel in the ruins

      Answered: http://debunking911.com/thermite.htm

      No video footage of the hijackers boarding the planes.



      After the bomber flew into the Empire State Building, subsequent skyscrapers were built to withstand such a hit.

      They did withstand the hits. Perfectly in fact. Upon impact they returned to their original upright positions within seconds, retaining their strucural integrity. Just as they were designed to do. To not withstand the hits would have been for them to topple/collapse immediately upon impact. They didn’t. Succumbing to prolonged jet fuel fire is not a design flaw.

      For all the security cameras on and around the Pentagon, we only have 1 video showing something hit the building, and the most crucial frame is missing.
      The size and shape of the hole in the Pentagon.
      No marks in the ground where the plane’s engines would have dug in if the plane had been that low to go under the first floor of the Pentagon.

      Pentagon Myths: http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11/

      There is so much to learn, and I’m not very good at putting it into words so this is why I say to do your research,

      You clearly haven’t

      Now, I’ve had the patience and good will to provide you with actual hard evidence. You have provided nothing. Here are some peer reviewed sources for my information. For me to even entertain any further responses you will need to at least meet that standard. Reeling off a huge list of things you don’t understand, or claims you cannot be bothered to substantiate is not treating this topic with the respect I think it is owed.

      Peer reviewed sources http://debunking911.com/paper.htm

      A smart mind readjusts its views based on the evidence. Will you?

  • What, ho, Tarbuck! Signior Tarbuck, ho!

    Friends, skeptics, atheists, lend me your ears! I come to silence Signior Tarbuck, not to praise him.

    As brevity is the soul of wit, the man doth protest too much, methinks, and loses all credibility.

  • JimmyTarbuck

    I wonder if we can agree on one thing… do you think the US and its allies have a long term agenda that transcends politics with an ultimate economic or religious goal?

  • IS yes, US no

  • JimmyTarbuck

    I had to let all this go because I haven’t really got the energy for it. But I was just watching some videos on YouTube and came across this…

    George Carlin, always able to describe things in a concise and eloquent way, sums up what the real world is all about.

  • Pingback: Ep#46 – Michael Shermer – The Moral Arc | Godless Spellchecker's Blog

  • ” Why would you believe the government is all warm and fluffy telling you nothing but truth and having your best interests at heart”

    You know you’re dealing with a complete fruitcake when they trot out that ridiculous false dilemma. as if there is no choice but complete credulity towards the government, or complete credulity towards every wingnut anti-government conspiracy theory.

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